Roosevelt dime

Last updated

Roosevelt dime
United States
Value10 cents (0.10 US dollars)
Mass.999 silver 2.537 g; .900 silver 2.500 g. Clad: 2.268 [1]  g
Diameter17.91 [2]  mm (0.705 in)
Edge reeded [1]
90% Ag, 10% Cu (1946–1964 standard; 1992–2018 silver proof only) [3] [4]
99.9% Ag (silver proof, 2019 to present)

75% Cu and 25% Ni over pure copper core (1965–present) [5]
SilverOrdinary circulation dimes since 1965 contain no silver. For coins dated 1946 to 1964 and some collector's editions since 1992:

(. 900 silver, before 2019) 0.07234 troy oz [1]

(.999 silver since 2019) 0.082  troy oz
Years of minting1946 to present
Mint marks P, D, S, W. Located from 1946 to 1964 on the lower reverse to the left of the torch, since 1968 on the obverse above the date. No mint mark used at Philadelphia before 1980 or at any mint from 1965 to 1967.
2017-D Roosevelt dime obverse transparent.png
Design Franklin D. Roosevelt
Designer John R. Sinnock
Design date1946
2017-D Roosevelt dime reverse transparent.png
DesignTorch with branches of olive and oak
Designer John R. Sinnock
Design date1946

The Roosevelt dime is the current dime, or ten-cent piece, of the United States. Struck by the United States Mint continuously since 1946, it displays President Franklin D. Roosevelt on the obverse and was authorized soon after his death in 1945.


Roosevelt had been stricken with polio, and was one of the moving forces of the March of Dimes. The ten-cent coin could be changed by the Mint without the need for congressional action, and officials moved quickly to replace the Mercury dime. Chief Engraver John R. Sinnock prepared models, but faced repeated criticism from the Commission of Fine Arts. He modified his design in response, and the coin went into circulation in January 1946.

Since its introduction, the Roosevelt dime has been struck continuously in large numbers. The Mint transitioned from striking the coin in silver to base metal in 1965, and the design remains essentially unaltered from when Sinnock created it. Without rare dates or silver content, the dime is less widely sought by coin collectors than other modern U.S. coins.

Inception and preparation

President Franklin D. Roosevelt died on April 12, 1945, after leading the United States through much of the Great Depression and World War II. Roosevelt had suffered from polio since 1921 and had helped found and strongly supported the March of Dimes to fight that crippling disease, so the ten-cent piece was an obvious way of honoring a president popular for his war leadership. [6] [7] On May 3, Louisiana Representative James Hobson Morrison introduced a bill for a Roosevelt dime. [8] On May 17, Treasury Secretary Henry Morgenthau Jr. announced that the Mercury dime (also known as the Winged Liberty dime) would be replaced by a new coin depicting Roosevelt, to go into circulation about the end of the year. [9] Approximately 90 percent of the letters received by Stuart Mosher, editor of The Numismatist (the journal of the American Numismatic Association), were supportive of the change, but he himself was not, arguing that the Mercury design was beautiful and that the limited space on the dime would not do justice to Roosevelt; he advocated a commemorative silver dollar instead. [10] Others objected that despite his merits, Roosevelt had not earned a place alongside Washington, Jefferson and Lincoln, the only presidents honored on the circulating coinage to that point. [11] As the Mercury design, first coined in 1916, had been struck for at least 25 years, it could be changed under the law by the Bureau of the Mint. No congressional action was required, though the committees of each house with jurisdiction over the coinage were informed. [12]

Creating the new design was the responsibility of Chief Engraver John R. Sinnock, who had been in his position since 1925. [13] Much of the work in preparing the new coin was done by Sinnock's assistant, later chief engraver Gilroy Roberts. [14] In early October 1945, Sinnock submitted plaster models to Assistant Director of the Mint F. Leland Howard (then acting as director), who transmitted them to the Commission of Fine Arts. This commission reviews coin designs because it was tasked by a 1921 executive order by President Warren G. Harding with rendering advisory opinions on public artworks. [15]

Two of Sinnock's sketches for the reverse of the dime Sinnock dime sketches.jpeg
Two of Sinnock's sketches for the reverse of the dime

The models initially submitted by Sinnock showed a bust of Roosevelt on the obverse and, on the reverse, a hand grasping a torch, and also clutching sprigs of olive and oak. Sinnock had prepared several other sketches for the reverse, including one flanking the torch with scrolls inscribed with the Four Freedoms. Other drafts showed representations of the goddess Liberty, and one commemorated the United Nations Conference of 1945, displaying the War Memorial Opera House where it took place. [16] Numismatist David Lange described most of the alternative designs as "weak". [17] The models were sent on October 12 by Howard to Gilmore Clarke, chairman of the commission, who consulted with its members and responded on the 22nd, rejecting them, stating that "the head of the late President Roosevelt, as portrayed by the models, is not good. It needs more dignity." [13] Sinnock had submitted an alternative reverse design similar to the eventual coin, with the hand omitted and the sprigs placed on either side of the torch; Clarke preferred this. [18]

Sinnock at work on the model for the dime Johnsinnock.jpg
Sinnock at work on the model for the dime

Sinnock attended a conference at the home of Lee Lawrie, sculptor member of the commission, with a view to resolving the differences, and thereafter submitted a new model for the obverse, addressing the concerns about Roosevelt's head. The Mint Director, Nellie Tayloe Ross, sent photographs to the commission, which rejected it and proposed a competition among five artists, including Adolph A. Weinman (designer of the Mercury dime and Walking Liberty half dollar) and James Earle Fraser (who had sculpted the Buffalo nickel). Ross declined, as the Mint was under great pressure to have the new coins ready for the March of Dimes campaign in January 1946. The new Treasury Secretary, Fred Vinson, was appealed to, but he also disliked the models and rejected them near the end of December. Sinnock swapped the positions of the date and the word LIBERTY, allowing an enlargement of the head. He made other changes as well; according to numismatic author Don Taxay, "Roosevelt had never looked better!" [18]

Lawrie and Vinson approved the models. On January 8, Ross telephoned the commission, informing them of this. With Sinnock ill (he died in 1947) and the March of Dimes campaign under way, Ross did not wait for a full meeting of the commission, but authorized the start of production. This caused some ill-feeling between the Mint and the commission, but she believed that she had fulfilled her obligations under the executive order. [19]


The reverse of the Mercury dime, with a fasces and, like the Roosevelt, an olive branch 1943D Mercury Dime reverse.jpg
The reverse of the Mercury dime, with a fasces and, like the Roosevelt, an olive branch

The obverse of the dime depicts President Roosevelt, with the inscriptions LIBERTY and IN GOD WE TRUST. Sinnock's initials, JS, are found by the cutoff of the bust, to the left of the date. The reverse shows a torch in the center, representing liberty, flanked by an olive sprig representing peace, and one of oak symbolizing strength and independence. The inscription E PLURIBUS UNUM (out of many, one) stretches across the field. The name of the country and the value of the coin are the legends that surround the reverse design, [20] which is symbolic of the victorious end of World War II. [7]

Numismatist Mark Benvenuto suggested that the image of Roosevelt on the coin is more natural than other such presidential portraits, resembling that on an art medal. [7] Walter Breen, in his comprehensive volume on U.S. coins, argued that "the new design was ... no improvement at all on Weinman's [Mercury dime] except for eliminating the fasces [on its reverse] and making the vegetation more recognizably an olive branch for peace." [21] Art historian Cornelius Vermeule called the Roosevelt dime "a clean, satisfying and modestly stylish, no-nonsense coin that in total view comes forth with notes of grandeur". [22]

Selma Burke's plaque for Roosevelt Roosevelt plaque.jpg
Selma Burke's plaque for Roosevelt

Some, at the time of design and since, have seen similarities between the dime and a plaque depicting Roosevelt sculpted by African-American sculptor Selma Burke, unveiled in September 1945, which is in the Recorder of Deeds Building in Washington; Burke was among those alleging her work was used by Sinnock to create the dime. [21] She advocated for this position until her death in 1994, and persuaded a number of numismatists and politicians, including Roosevelt's son James. Numismatists who support her point to the fact that Sinnock took his depiction of the Liberty Bell, which appears on the 1926 Sesquicentennial half dollar and Franklin half dollar (1948–1963), from another designer without giving credit. However, Robert R. Van Ryzin, in his book on mysteries about U.S. coins, pointed out that Sinnock had sketched Roosevelt from life in 1933 for his first presidential medal (designed by Sinnock), and accounts from the time of issuance of the dime state that Sinnock used those, as well as photographs of the president, to prepare the dime. [23] A 1956 obituary in The New York Times credits Marcel Sternberger with taking the photograph that Sinnock adapted for the dime. [24] According to Van Ryzin, the passage of time has made it impossible to verify or invalidate Burke's assertion. [25]


A silver Roosevelt dime Silver Roosevelt Dime.jpg
A silver Roosevelt dime

The Roosevelt dime was first struck on January 19, 1946, at the Philadelphia Mint. [26] It was released into circulation on January 30, which would have been President Roosevelt's 64th birthday. [20] The planned release date had been February 5; it was moved up to coincide with the anniversary. [26] With its debut, Sinnock became the first chief engraver to be credited with the design of a new circulating U.S. coin since those designed by Charles E. Barber were first issued in 1892. [27] The release of the coins was a newsworthy event, and demand for the new design remained strong, although many of Roosevelt's opponents, particularly Republicans, were outraged. [28] There were reports of the new dime being rejected in vending machines, but no changes to the coin were made. [26] The dime's design has not changed much in its over seventy years of production, the most significant alterations being minor changes to Roosevelt's hair and the shifting of the mint mark from reverse to obverse in the 1960s. [27]

At the time the dimes were released, relations with the USSR were deteriorating, and Sinnock's initials, JS, were deemed by some to refer to Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin, placed there by a communist sympathizer. Once these rumors reached Congress, the Mint sent out press releases debunking this myth. [29] [30] Despite the Mint's denial, there were rumors into the 1950s that there had been a secret deal at the Yalta Conference to honor Stalin on a U.S. coin. [26] The controversy was given fresh life in 1948 with the posthumous release of Sinnock's Franklin half dollar, which bears his initials JRS. [31]

Although usually more coins were struck at Philadelphia than at the other mints during the years the coin was struck in silver, only 12,450,181 were struck there in 1955, fewer than at the Denver Mint or at San Francisco. This was due to a sagging economy and a lackluster demand for coins that caused the Mint to announce in January that the San Francisco Mint would be shuttered at the end of the year. The 1955 dimes from the three facilities are the lowest mintages by date and mint mark among circulating coins in the series, but are not rare, as collectors stored them away in rolls of 50. [32]

With the Coinage Act of 1965, the Mint transitioned to striking clad coins, made from a sandwich of copper nickel around a core of pure copper. There are no mint marks on coins dated from 1965 to 1967, as the Mint made efforts to discourage the hoarding that it blamed for the coin shortages that had preceded the 1965 act. [33] The Mint modified the master hub only slightly when it began clad coinage, but starting in 1981, made minor changes that lowered the coin's relief considerably, leading to a flatter look to Roosevelt's profile. This was done so that coinage dies would last longer. Mint marks resumed in 1968 at Denver and for proof coins at San Francisco. Although the California facility beginning in 1965 occasionally struck dimes for commerce, those bore no mint marks and are indistinguishable from ones minted at Philadelphia. [34] The only dimes to bear the "S" mint mark for San Francisco since 1968 have been proof coins, resuming a series coined from 1946 to 1964 without mint mark at Philadelphia. [35] Starting in 1992, silver dimes with the pre-1965 composition were struck at San Francisco for inclusion in annual proof sets featuring silver coins. [36] Beginning in 2019, these silver dimes are struck in .999 silver, rather than .900, which the Mint no longer uses. [37]

In 1980, the Philadelphia Mint began using a mint mark "P" on dimes. [38] Dimes had been struck intermittently during the 1970s and 1980s at the West Point Mint, in Roosevelt's home state of New York, to meet demand, but none bore a "W" mint mark. This changed in 1996, when dimes were struck there for the 50th anniversary of the Roosevelt design. Just under a million and a half clad 1996-W dimes were minted; these were not released to circulation, but were included in the year's mint set for collectors. In 2015, silver dimes were struck at West Point for inclusion in a special set of coins for the March of Dimes, including a dime struck at Philadelphia and a silver dollar depicting Roosevelt and polio vaccine developer Dr. Jonas Salk. [39] Mintages generally remained high, with a billion coins each struck at Philadelphia and at Denver in many of the clad years. [40]

In 2003, Indiana Representative Mark Souder proposed that former president Ronald Reagan, who was then dying of Alzheimer's disease, replace Roosevelt on the dime once he died, stating that Reagan was as iconic to conservatives as Roosevelt was to liberals. Reagan's wife Nancy expressed her opposition, stating that she was certain the former president would not have favored it either. After Ronald Reagan died in 2004, there was support for a design change, but Souder declined to pursue his proposal. [41]

The Circulating Collectible Coin Redesign Act of 2020 (Pub.L.   116–330 (text) (PDF)) was signed by President Donald Trump on January 13, 2021. It provides for, among other things, special one-year designs for the circulating coinage in 2026, including the dime, for the United States Semiquincentennial (250th anniversary), with one of the designs to depict women. [42]


Due to the large numbers struck, few regular-issue Roosevelt dimes command a premium, and the series has received relatively little attention from collectors. Though silver issues remain legal tender and can be removed from circulation and collected via coin roll hunting, clad coins form the majority of the dimes in circulation. Prominent among these are the dimes struck at Philadelphia in 1982, erroneously minted and released without the mint mark "P"; these may sell for $50 to $75. As no official mint sets were issued in 1982 or 1983, even ordinary dimes of those years from Philadelphia or Denver in pristine condition command a significant premium (worn ones do not). Far more expensive are the dimes erroneously issued in proof condition in 1970, 1975 and 1983 that lack the "S" mint mark. One of only two known from 1975 sold at auction in 2011 for $349,600. [27] [43]


  1. 1 2 3 Yeoman, p. 705.
  2. "Dime". U.S. Mint. Retrieved 2020-04-05.
  3. "Roosevelt Dimes - Price Charts & Coin Values". Retrieved 2019-09-22.
  4. "Proof Roosevelt Dimes" . Retrieved 2019-09-22.
  5. "Roosevelt Dime Specifications" . Retrieved 2019-09-22.
  6. The Numismatist& November 1996, p. 1312.
  7. 1 2 3 The Numismatist& August 2003, p. 109.
  8. "A Roosevelt Dime Is Proposed" (PDF). The New York Times . May 4, 1945.
  9. The Numismatist& June 1945, p. 612.
  10. The Numismatist& July 1945, p. 732.
  11. Vermeule, p. 209.
  12. The Numismatist& June 1946, p. 646.
  13. 1 2 Taxay, p. 371.
  14. The Numismatist& November 1992, p. 1538.
  15. Taxay, pp. v–vi, 371.
  16. Vermeule, pp. 209–210.
  17. The Numismatist& August 2009, p. 21.
  18. 1 2 Taxay, pp. 371, 375.
  19. Taxay, p. 375.
  20. 1 2 The Numismatist& March 1946, p. 275.
  21. 1 2 Breen, p. 329.
  22. Vermeule, p. 208.
  23. Van Ryzin, pp. 189–213.
  24. "Marcel Sternberger; Photographer of Portrait for Roosevelt Dime Dead at 57" . The New York Times. October 27, 1956.
  25. Van Ryzin, p. 213.
  26. 1 2 3 4 LaMarre, Tom (March 7, 2011). "Roosevelt on the Dime". Coins. Archived from the original on February 4, 2017. Retrieved February 4, 2017.
  27. 1 2 3 The Numismatist& March 2016, p. 32.
  28. Reiter, Ed, "The Roosevelt Dime: Going Like Sixty", Littleton Coin Company; accessed 2017.07.27.
  29. Breen, pp. 329–330.
  30. Guth & Garrett, p. 64.
  31. Breen, p. 416.
  32. The Numismatist& January 2017, pp. 51–52.
  33. Breen, p. 132.
  34. The Numismatist& November 1999, p. 1361.
  35. Yeoman, pp. 707–719.
  36. Yeoman, pp. 1265–1267.
  37. Gilkes, Paul (February 22, 2019). "U.S. Mint replaces 90 percent silver alloy with .999 fine silver". Coin World . Retrieved March 23, 2019.
  38. Breen, p. 332.
  39. The Numismatist& March 2016, pp. 34–35.
  40. Yeoman, pp. 711–719.
  41. The Numismatist& March 2016, pp. 32–33.
  42. Gilkes, Paul (January 15, 2021). "Circulating Collectible Coin Redesign Act of 2020 signed by president". Coin World . Retrieved January 23, 2021.
  43. Yeoman, p. 713.




Related Research Articles

Nickel (United States coin) Current denomination of United States currency

A nickel is a five-cent coin struck by the United States Mint. Composed of cupronickel, the piece has been issued since 1866. Its diameter is 0.835 inches (21.21 mm) and its thickness is 0.077 inches (1.95 mm).

Two-cent piece (United States) Coin of the United States (1864–1873)

The two-cent piece was produced by the Mint of the United States for circulation from 1864 to 1872 and for collectors in 1873. Designed by James B. Longacre, there were decreasing mintages each year, as other minor coins such as the nickel proved more popular. It was abolished by the Mint Act of 1873.

Franklin half dollar US American coin

The Franklin half dollar is a coin that was struck by the United States Mint from 1948 to 1963. The fifty-cent piece pictures Founding Father Benjamin Franklin on the obverse and the Liberty Bell on the reverse. A small eagle was placed to the right of the bell to fulfill the legal requirement that half dollars depict the figure of an eagle. Produced in 90 percent silver with a reeded edge, the coin was struck at the Philadelphia, Denver, and San Francisco mints. As of December 30, 2021, the melt value of the $0.50 coin was approximately $8.37.

Mercury dime 10 cent coin minted in the USA between 1916 and 1945

The Mercury dime is a ten-cent coin struck by the United States Mint from late 1916 to 1945. Designed by Adolph Weinman and also referred to as the Winged Liberty Head dime, it gained its common name because the obverse depiction of a young Liberty, identifiable by her winged Phrygian cap, was confused with the Roman god Mercury. Weinman is believed to have used Elsie Stevens, the wife of lawyer and poet Wallace Stevens, as a model. The coin's reverse depicts a fasces, symbolizing unity and strength, and an olive branch, signifying peace.

Twenty-cent piece (United States coin) Coin of the United States (1875–1878)

The American twenty-cent piece is a coin struck from 1875 to 1878, but only for collectors in the final two years. Proposed by Nevada Senator John P. Jones, it proved a failure due to confusion with the quarter, to which it was close in both size and value.

Seated Liberty dollar United States silver dollar coin minted from 1840–1873

The Seated Liberty dollar was a dollar coin struck by the United States Mint from 1840 to 1873 and designed by its chief engraver, Christian Gobrecht. It was the last silver coin of that denomination to be struck before passage of the Coinage Act of 1873, which temporarily ended production of the silver dollar for American commerce. The coin's obverse is based on that of the Gobrecht dollar, which had been minted experimentally from 1836 to 1839. However, the soaring eagle used on the reverse of the Gobrecht dollar was not used; instead, the United States Mint (Mint) used a heraldic eagle, based on a design by late Mint Chief Engraver John Reich first utilized on coins in 1807.

Indian Head cent American one-cent coin (1859-1909)

The Indian Head cent, also known as an Indian Head penny, was a one-cent coin ($0.01) produced by the United States Bureau of the Mint from 1859 to 1909. It was designed by James Barton Longacre, the Chief Engraver at the Philadelphia Mint.

Standing Liberty quarter US 25-cent coin minted 1916-1930

The Standing Liberty quarter is a 25-cent coin that was struck by the United States Mint from 1916 to 1930. It succeeded the Barber quarter, which had been minted since 1892. Featuring the goddess of Liberty on one side and an eagle in flight on the other, the coin was designed by American sculptor Hermon Atkins MacNeil.

Flying Eagle cent One-cent piece struck by the Mint of the United States

The Flying Eagle cent is a one-cent piece struck by the Mint of the United States as a pattern coin in 1856 and for circulation in 1857 and 1858. The coin was designed by Mint Chief Engraver James B. Longacre, with the eagle in flight based on the work of Longacre's predecessor, Christian Gobrecht.

Barber coinage American coins

The Barber coinage consists of a dime, quarter, and half dollar designed by United States Bureau of the Mint Chief Engraver Charles E. Barber. They were minted between 1892 and 1916, though no half dollars were struck in the final year of the series.

Three-dollar piece US three-dollar coin (1854–1889)

The three-dollar piece was a gold coin produced by the United States Bureau of the Mint from 1854 to 1889. Authorized by the Act of February 21, 1853, the coin was designed by Mint Chief Engraver James B. Longacre. The obverse bears a representation of Lady Liberty wearing a headdress of a Native American princess and the reverse a wreath of corn, wheat, cotton, and tobacco.

Washington quarter US 25-cent coin minted since 1932

The Washington quarter is the present quarter dollar or 25-cent piece issued by the United States Mint. The coin was first struck in 1932; the original version was designed by sculptor John Flanagan.

Indian Head gold pieces United States 20th-century gold coins

The Indian Head gold pieces or Pratt-Bigelow gold coins were two separate coin series, identical in design, struck by the United States Mint: a two-and-a-half-dollar piece, or quarter eagle, and a five-dollar coin, or half eagle. The quarter eagle was struck from 1908 to 1915 and from 1925–1929. The half eagle was struck from 1908 to 1916, and in 1929. The pieces remain the only US circulating coins with recessed designs. These coins were the last of their denominations to be struck for circulation, ending series that began in the 1790s.

Three-cent silver US three-cent coin (1851–1873)

The three-cent silver, also known as the three-cent piece in silver or trime, was struck by the Mint of the United States for circulation from 1851 to 1872, and as a proof coin in 1873. Designed by the Mint's chief engraver, James B. Longacre, it circulated well while other silver coinage was being hoarded and melted, but once that problem was addressed, became less used. It was abolished by Congress with the Coinage Act of 1873.

Elgin, Illinois, Centennial half dollar 1936 commemorative U.S. coin

The Elgin, Illinois, Centennial half dollar was a fifty-cent commemorative coin issued by the United States Bureau of the Mint in 1936, part of the wave of commemoratives authorized by Congress and struck that year. Intended to commemorate the centennial of the founding of Elgin, the piece was designed by local sculptor Trygve Rovelstad. The obverse depicts an idealized head of a pioneer man. The reverse shows a grouping of pioneers, and is based upon a sculptural group that Rovelstad hoped to build as a memorial to those who settled Illinois, but which was not erected in his lifetime.

United States Sesquicentennial coinage 1926 commemorative US half dollar and quarter eagle

The United States Sesquicentennial coin issue consisted of a commemorative half dollar and quarter eagle struck in 1926 at the Philadelphia Mint for the 150th anniversary of American independence. The obverse of the half dollar features portraits of the first president, George Washington, and the president in 1926, Calvin Coolidge, making it the only American coin to depict a president in his lifetime.

Missouri Centennial half dollar US commemorative fifty-cent piece (1921)

The Missouri Centennial half dollar is a commemorative fifty-cent piece struck by the United States Mint in 1921. It was designed by Robert Ingersoll Aitken. The US state of Missouri wanted a commemorative coin to mark its centennial that year. Legislation for such a coin passed through Congress without opposition and was signed by President Warren G. Harding on his inauguration day, March 4, 1921. The federal Commission of Fine Arts hired Aitken to design the coin, which depicted Daniel Boone on both sides. The reverse design, showing Boone with a Native American, has been interpreted as symbolizing the displacement of the Indians by white settlers.

Maryland Tercentenary half dollar US commemorative fifty-cent piece (1934)

The Maryland Tercentenary half dollar was a commemorative fifty-cent piece issued by the United States Bureau of the Mint in 1934. It depicts The Rt Hon. The 2nd Baron Baltimore on the obverse and the Coat of Arms of Maryland on the reverse.

Hudson Sesquicentennial half dollar 1935 commemorative U.S. coin

The Hudson, New York, Sesquicentennial half dollar, sometimes called the Hudson Sesquicentennial half dollar, is a commemorative fifty-cent piece struck by the United States Bureau of the Mint in 1935. The coin was designed by Chester Beach. Its obverse depicts the Half Moon, flagship of Henry Hudson, after whom the city of Hudson, New York is named. In addition to showing the ship, the coin displays a version of the Hudson city seal, with Neptune riding a whale, a design that has drawn commentary over the years.

Illinois Centennial half dollar American commemorative coin

The Illinois Centennial half dollar is a commemorative 50-cent piece struck by the United States Bureau of the Mint in 1918. The obverse, depicting Abraham Lincoln, was designed by Chief Engraver George T. Morgan; the reverse, based on the Seal of Illinois, was by his assistant and successor, John R. Sinnock. Morgan's obverse is based on the statue by Andrew O'Connor.